The Thought of the Day

[PolySciMajor]

DO NOT BE SHY TO ADD YOUR OWN THOUGHT TO THIS
I really want to hear from all of you
(any topic will do)

What happened to to this great nation of ours. We have all turned into pussy's. We hated Hitler, so we went into Europe and took controle of Germany. This was because this man Killed milions of Jews, Russians, and Allied forces. Not to mention the Retarded, gays, and anyone else that did not fit into the "master race." He occupied most of Europe. He even had the O-Games in germany during this time. The FRENCH were the only one's to salute him (besides Germany).

Hitler is gone. Thank God. Now we have Saddam. But see this is where the whole pussy thing comes in. We do not approve of this war as much as we did against Germany. Why is this? I can not seem to figure that out. He killed Millions of his own people. He used chemical weapons on children and women and other Kurdish people. THAT IS A WMD.

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.
- Made regime changed in Iraq offical US Policy.

Now since Clinton was in office it has been Us policy to do this. Clinton didn't have the balls to do this. Just like he didn't have the balls to have Osama Killed when we had the chance (oops). Now all of these people who think this war was a bad idea are on some kind of drug.

(I kind of feel like I am Ranting on this one so I will wrap it up quick)

Here are 10 reason why this was a good idea to take over Iraq.

1. Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Made regime changed in Iraq offical US Policy.
2. Gas Prices
3. China Increase of gas consumption
4. Possibility of having WMD's
5. Millions of people killed because of Sadam
6. The Oil for Food
7. The US Economy
8. Lack of Base in Middle East
9. Possibility of Iraq Funding Osama
10. IRAQ BORDERS IRAN

Stop being pussy's and support your troops. Lets not make this another veitnam.

[PolySciMajor]

9 people read this and 0 people have added nothing to it?

Do not be scared

Say any thought you want to or comment on mine........Or are your fingures broken?

[JakeThompson]

I'll be the first to reply. We rarely see eye to eye so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

Here, in a nutshell, is why Americans don't agree with it.



First off, the attack started okay. After 911, the American people weer seeking revenge. Going after Afghanistan, where the Taliban's headquarters was located, was okay. Even though we killed alot of innocent folks, we were getting revenge, and shit was okay.

Then we went after Saddam. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or a good guy, but what he's done is equal to what Bush is doing to the Iraqi people. We have killed so many innocents over there that it's not even funny. We have tortured there guys at Guatanamo (spelled wrong) so the Kurdish torture is negated.

Throw in the whole "weapons of mass destruction" theory that turned up about as often as Al Capone, and mix that with the fact that Saddam agreed to the United Nations searching his country (and coming up empty) is why we do not support the current war.

And throw in a dash of "finishing daddy's war" for the reach around.

We have lost quite a bit of American lives for a useless war. This is not a war on terrorism as our "President" leads you to believe; this is war that jumpstarted terrorism. Look up the numbers for how much terrorism has increased since Bush waged this factless war. He has only increased the problem.



Anyway, my girlfriend is knocking on the door so I will cut this short. There's a response.

[Ego74]

Saddam should've been ousted years ago. He was fortunate that he came along at the time that he did (1979), right after the Iran Hostage Crises. So, when he waged war on Iran, naturally, Reagan took his side.

Once the US finally stepped in after Iraqi forces overtook Kuwait, it was a little too late. Bush Sr was smart to know what a war in the streets of Baghdad would look like, so he ended Operation Desert Storm.

From 1998 until shortly before the current war, UN inspectors weren't allowed to enforce the cease fire agreement, so we have no idea what weapons Saddam had, except for "spotty" intelligence. I still believe he moved a lot of stuff to Syria. WE HAVE found stockpiles of weapons, but the media doesn't wanna talk about that.

We had a very good war plan to conquer Saddam, but very bad planning as to what to do once we captured the country and dismantled the Baath Party. We didn't seal the borders properly to keep these "insurgents' out. As, we have also failed to seal the borders in the US.

I voted for Bush in 2004, even though he is no Reagan in my book. But, his administration seems like they could care less about the whereabouts of Bin Laden. That disturbs me.

[PiST0N]

10 contradictions to the reasons why it's a good idea to take over Iraq

1. For every Iraqi that wants 'freedom' there's another that supports their current state, hence all the insurgencies. How can someone truly be free if they are forced to think the same way as everyone else?
2. Gas prices rose from $12-13 per barrel to $40+ after the US got involved in Iraq's takeover of Kuwait. Economics and politics do not mix. If you truly want a free market, you have to believe in 'laissez-faire'.
3. China, India and all the exponentially increasing populated countries will continue to be more demanding. At some point, it has to be understood that the US will no longer be the number one consumer in the world.
4. Even if you REMOTELY believe that WMD's could have existed, they would serve no threat to the continental US. That belief is to protect the state of Israel and nothing more. An ally, that if felt threatened, has the largest armed forces in the Middle East. If they had truly felt that Iraq was a threat, why didn't they take any action?
5. I will not underestimate the damage he's done to his people nor the surrounding areas, but it is false to assume that he's killed millions. Corporations in the US have killed millions and have sent more to their doom with the inventions of DDT, rGBH and other chemicals that have bred cancer and forever damaged the environment. Are they to be invaded?
6. Short term thinking. "Give someone a fish and you feed him for a day; teach someone to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"
7. Because of all the actions in the current administration, the US economy is said to be devastated with a $1.3 trillion deficit. Governments can operate at a loss, but this forecasts a recession and depending on how its handled, a depression. The separation between the rich and the poor will widen profusely and at some point there will devastating consequences.
8. Uh.. Israel, Saudi Arabia? Just because it's not proudly waving that American flag, doesn't mean it's not there.
9. There has been no proof of Iraq funding Bin Laden. Zero. On the other hand, all signs are pointing to Saudi Arabia.. maybe they just got the two countries mixed up?
10. So it does.. but if that was the intent all along, then why not say so?

The whole war has been mired by deception and fallacies. If the true meaning was to remove Hussein from power, fine. But a coup is an internal matter. There weren't millions of Iraqis pleading with the US to devastate their lands.

You want to police the world? Go ahead. Nobody's pretending that they can stop you. But if you're wrong and the people you serve believe you're wrong, don't try to guilt or manipulate them in to believing in your cause. Faith will not forever protect you.

[PolySciMajor]

Jake
Thank you for your response. To add real quick, I love listening to peoples thoughts, and angles. EEven more, when they differ from mine.

Innocents get killed in every war. Its a sad fact of Life. Just think about how many people were killed in WW2 during the bombing raids. Also a lot of the innocents are not being killed by us.....but by the car bomb's of these Insurgents.

Then we went after Saddam. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or a good guy, but what he's done is equal to what Bush is doing to the Iraqi people.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????. You are kidding me right? over 1 million people he killed? Wow. Liberating people and using chemical weapons on women and children are the same. Hey, if bush is equal to Saddam, then why didn't you move to Iraq????????????? Oh, thats right.....you didn't want to get tourtured for weeks on end.......Have you heard of the things that this man has done.

We have tortured there guys at Guatanamo (spelled wrong) so the Kurdish torture is negated.

????????????????????????????? I will not dignify that with a response.

Throw in the whole "weapons of mass destruction" theory that turned up about as often as Al Capone, and mix that with the fact that Saddam agreed to the United Nations searching his country (and coming up empty) is why we do not support the current war.

Granted, we did not find any, but the guy did have them in the past...Not to mention used them on his own people........Thats right he is not that bad is he. So If bush would, to say for shits and giggles, to take all of Arizona and dump Sarin gas on everyone, that would not be a big deal....not a reason to overthrow him?

And throw in a dash of "finishing daddy's war" for the reach around.

We have lost quite a bit of American lives for a useless war. This is not a war on terrorism as our "President" leads you to believe; this is war that jumpstarted terrorism. Look up the numbers for how much terrorism has increased since Bush waged this factless war. He has only increased the problem.

Daddy's war. No. Saddams war, YES.

I will never say a death of a soldier is a good thing. Freedom comes at a price. Remmber the history books in school. Well, their is this section called the Revolutionary War. Can anyone name some Soilders that died for Americans Freedom? THE FRENCH.

This is not a war on terrorism as our "President" leads you to believe;

Lets make this clear. I never said it was a war on terror. Did I????
Because of the simple fact that it is not. See you need to come to the gray side. See the press is a very strong weapon. Not against other nations, but against our own. The times have changed. Our government can not do very much in secret anymore. (Freedom of Information act). Some thing that happen in our government need to be kept secret, for national security purposes. This being said, At the time terrorists were the hot button issue at that time. Gas Prices were soring. We are currently in a bidding war for Gas against China and india. With us occupying the second (it might be 3rd now) leading oil reserves, that gives us a inside track. And do not think for a second that their is not going to be another world war. Because when gas gets to high, or the reserves get too low....we will have a HUGE War on our hands.

I really have to get going......Your girlfreind is knocking on my door (just kidding )

Please feel free to respond back

your welcome anytime outside the sports zone and into the POLYSCI Zone....LOL

[PiST0N]

Originally Posted by Ego74

WE HAVE found stockpiles of weapons, but the media doesn't wanna talk about that.

Do you have a source for that? Please don't tell me you believe that the media is 'liberal'. If they did exist, certainly media outlets like Al Jazeera and the BBC wouldn't have any issue in reporting those findings.

Originally Posted by Ego74

I voted for Bush in 2004, even though he is no Reagan in my book. But, his administration seems like they could care less about the whereabouts of Bin Laden. That disturbs me.

Just curious, did you vote for Bush because he's Republican, or because you really believed in his cause?

[PolySciMajor]

1. For every Iraqi that wants 'freedom' there's another that supports their current state, hence all the insurgencies. How can someone truly be free if they are forced to think the same way as everyone else?

Isn't that how Saddam ran his State for his Term. Think about it. The Baath party is the minority party. Shiets and Kurds are the 2 leading Partys. Hence the fact they took most of the seats in the ELECTION. Their are more people that want freedom than their are that want chaos. This is the front line of terrorism. Its the USA vs Syria, al-qada, Baathist, terrorists, etc..... Now if you were as a society that was supressed for decads. Wouldn't you have a hard time standing up to these insurgents. To think after we leave that the country will crumble. And revert back to the same old dictatorship. They are happy. They can read a newspaper. Talk about what they want to. Imagine if you were to talk bad about President Bush and then have the wrong person hear it. The next day your testicals are hooked up to a car battery. You get beaten for days. Hung by your ankles by electrical cords and left there. All this said, that is if you were lucky to have such a light punishment. Remember the meeting when he pulled all of the top figures into a run. One by one calling peoples names in front of the huge crowd. Saying you were against him (saddam). The being hauled off to your death. No one knew who's name was going to get called next.

THIS IS ALL ON VIDEO TAPE AND WAS PLAYED FOR THE NATION.

2. Gas prices rose from $12-13 per barrel to $40+ after the US got involved in Iraq's takeover of Kuwait. Economics and politics do not mix. If you truly want a free market, you have to believe in 'laissez-faire'.

I just looked that up. That figure seems very drastic. Give me a link. I want to see this one. If true good point.

3. China, India and all the exponentially increasing populated countries will continue to be more demanding. At some point, it has to be understood that the US will no longer be the number one consumer in the world.

America has the highest GDP(Gross Domestic Product) . You can take and add up all the GDP of europe and it won't come close. It will take a long time before china or India come close. US has $9 trillion a year.

4. Even if you REMOTELY believe that WMD's could have existed, they would serve no threat to the continental US. That belief is to protect the state of Israel and nothing more. An ally, that if felt threatened, has the largest armed forces in the Middle East. If they had truly felt that Iraq was a threat, why didn't they take any action?

So if you use WMD's on your own people its OK? Really, I just want to know?

5. I will not underestimate the damage he's done to his people nor the surrounding areas, but it is false to assume that he's killed millions. Corporations in the US have killed millions and have sent more to their doom with the inventions of DDT, rGBH and other chemicals that have bred cancer and forever damaged the environment. Are they to be invaded?

Do you know read or watch news outside of the sports shows?

7. Because of all the actions in the current administration, the US economy is said to be devastated with a $1.3 trillion deficit. Governments can operate at a loss, but this forecasts a recession and depending on how its handled, a depression. The separation between the rich and the poor will widen profusely and at some point there will devastating consequences.

Think about this. Clinton was the one that handed Bush a declining economy. Any history book will show this. Now less then 9 months in office, the WTC was bombed. Airlines went down. The whole stock market went down. Oil went threw the roof. Not to mention we were going to war. Thats more money. Social Security is going down. The Baby Bombers are ready to retire. This country right now is evolving. It takes time to change. Now, Bush has done well. Things are going in the right direction. We have dodged a depression thanks to this man.

9. There has been no proof of Iraq funding Bin Laden. Zero. On the other hand, all signs are pointing to Saudi Arabia.. maybe they just got the two countries mixed up?

First rule you must know about history is you can not bring up something that was not known or did not happen as a fact that occured during that time. At the time we did not know this. So it WAS a reason at THAT time.

6. The Oil for Food.........Let me explain this one to you. See they could not trade a lot of their Oil. This is because of Saddam. Now that he is gone. We will be able to lift this embargo from Iraq after they have a Final Government. Then They can export more barrels of oil.

These are just responses all in fun. You do make a good argument.

[PolySciMajor]

I would like to thank everyone for their thoughts.

And feel free to post a new subject, or to respond to this one.

I am here to talk....LOL

[PiST0N]

Ok.. i got the oil prices wrong.. it went from ~$15 to ~$25 for the gulf war.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/chron.html

As for the argument for democracy, how can I argue that? Of course I would want the people of the country to have their own say. But the problem I have is that the ideal was forced upon them. As I said, how can you express freedom and choice if you must obey what is asked of you?

In regards to the GDP, you'll see a remarkable change within the next decade. China's opened up the floodgates for international business while India is also modernizing its workforce. The GDP is always relative to the population. Considering China's 5 times the size of the US, i don't much issue in overtaking that stat.

Use WMD's on your own people? You mean like testing atomic bombs in the atmosphere? Or blowing up an island off the Florida Keyes? Or testing the latest Cruser missles in the arctic cap? Or dropping Agent Orange on your own troops in Vietnam? C'mon, as much as Sadaam may have hated the Kurds, you act as if he had no interest in his country. The Russians slaughtered the Chechnyans while the Jews slaughtered the Palestenians and yet the US are not invading those countries. From a POLITICAL point of view, you have to give me a better reason than that. You said it yourself, innocent people will die.

"Do you know read or watch news outside of the sports shows?"

Is that a sign of ignorance? Please give me a link that shows Sadaam has killed millions. And don't tie in the casualties he's had in the Iraq/Iran wars as well as the Gulf Wars, because HE didn't kill them. On the other hand, i will gladly point you in the right direction that your (our) health is hell in a handbasket due to all the chemical testing and FDA approved drugs that are on the market.

To say Bush inherited a bad situation isn't completely false, but he did nothing to alleviate it. You can live in the moment and say things are better now, but they won't be for a long time.

"First rule you must know about history is you can not bring up something that was not known or did not happen as a fact that occured during that time. At the time we did not know this. So it WAS a reason at THAT time."

Uh, well, when the US invaded Afghanistan it was known that the Bin Laden's were involved. When it was determined that 90% of the passengers on the plane were Saudi's, the origin of the attack was determined. Even if you look back at when the war first started with Iraq, there was NO proof linking the terrorism to that country. None! Why do you think so many people opposed the invasion BEFORE it was done? They're all skeptics?